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Is WineHQ anti Playonlinux?

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bockscar Dimanche 16 Février 2014 à 19:34
bockscarAnonymous

So I submitted a bug report in Wine's bugzilla and I made a mention that I was simply using a Play On Linux prefix and I was chastised and told that the bug report was invalid and I needed to test again.

What does PlayOnLinux do that nullifies Wine bug reports? It seems all it does is create prefixes and offers and easy way to configure and debug Wine..?
Ronin DUSETTE Jeudi 20 Février 2014 à 19:13
Ronin DUSETTE
Admin

I agree. If you post on there, and even mention using PlayOnLinux, they will usually just remove your comment/post.

Ideally, Wine should run with no extra stuff. But, this has not been possible, hence the prefix's. Wine is not stable enough to be run by itself, which I have to imagine is why winetricks was made. POL does what winetricks does, but IMO, POL does it a lot better, with much more support.

When you get down to it, all POL does is add advanced functionality to the already-available Wine commands and features, but does it in a GUI, with all sorts of cool features.

The only other reason I could imagine that they want nothing to do with POL is that Wine is sponsored by Codeweavers, who make an app similar to POL, but it costs money, and I believe the head Wine dev is also the head dev at Codeweavers, but yeah. It is what it is, unfortunately.

Please:
Post debug logs & full computer specs in first post
No private messages for general help, use the forums
Read the wiki, Report broken scripts
borislavsabev Lundi 24 Février 2014 à 22:49
borislavsabevAnonymous

Same issue here... Nevertheless wine is wine and POL is just an interface to wine and winetricks.

I'd like to believe that the "confclict of interests" for the lead dev is not true but aknowledge that we do not live in a perfect open-source world.

The Wine wiki lists POL as a third-party software package:
http://wiki.winehq.org/FAQ#head-aeffd8e1fe7702219fcf87f97834edc926cb1235
and they do not want to take any responcibility for problems related to POl.
Which is OK as a development practise. From that point I can understand - they need to focus the little resources they've got on fixing real wine issues.

However this "Thind-Party application evangelism", in my opinion, is hurting the community and especially new members. For them POL provides a nice interface to all confusing wine configurations.

I think that you must seek to find a compromise with the wine devs if possible.
booman Mardi 25 Février 2014 à 0:15
booman

I've had the exact same problem. Any time I posted a test and mention anything related to PlayOnLinux, they would deny it to be published.
All I wanted to do is show gamers out there that Wine does work for a lot of games.
Most gamers go to WineHQs first to see if a game runs. Then they will be presented with a lot of "Garbage" and "Silver" results even though the game runs fine with PlayOnLinux and Crossover.
Sadly, I think their "pure" Wine idealism is pushing gamers away.
I understand they don't want to support PlayOnLinux, but they could at least let us post on their database that the game works and just link to PlayOnLinux support forum.

† Booman †
Mint 19 64-bit | Nvidia 415.25 | GeForce GTX 1060
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Daerandin Mardi 25 Février 2014 à 7:10
DaerandinAnonymous

I agree that if some sort of compromise could be possible, that would be ideal. On the other hand, I can also understand (assuming for a moment there is no conflict of interest between PoL and crossover) that they do not wish to provide any support in relation to using third party software that they have no control over and most likely do not use themselves.

In some ways I think it might help wine devs if they were to take a more friendly stance towards PoL. There are many games that work better in certain wine versions, and sometimes don't work at all in the newest wine versions. Since their goal is to have wine be able to run any windows application, then investigating why something works in one version and not in another could help point them in the right direction to get it fixed for new versions.
booman Mardi 25 Février 2014 à 16:05
booman

I totally agree.
You can always post your result in the comments area, but I've even had those deleted as well.
I have even submitted test results with no mention of PlayOnLinux, but they denied it due to the version of Wine. They claimed I had to test with specific "stable" versions of Wine: 1.4, 1.6.2, etc
That kind of attitude is only hurting them because some games just refuse to work on "stable" versions of Wine.
I admit most games run fine on the stable versions, but others don't.
They won't support patched versions of Wine, but I understand that. The only problem is that they won't add the patches to the "stable" version either.
For example: Crysis, Crysis Warhead and Crysis II will not run with any version of Wine.
But the d3d-DoubleBuffer versions of wine from PlayOnLinux run all three games.
So on WineHQ's all the test results show "garbage" but all three games run really well.
Hence my guides....
I finally decided to just show the world how to run these games with PlayOnLinux instead of waiting for Wine to fix it.

† Booman †
Mint 19 64-bit | Nvidia 415.25 | GeForce GTX 1060
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petch Mardi 25 Février 2014 à 19:44
petch
Développeur

I think they're two kinds of AppDB users.

The first one is Wine users, that are looking for ways to get their software running under Wine, as good as possible.

The other ones are Wine developers, looking for things to fix, feedback on improvements and regressions. Their goal is to improve Wine further.

While both are looking for numerous, detailed and correct reports, their distinct goals make them look for different kind of reports:
- for Wine users anything goes: Wine versions, native components (unless they're very licensing conscious), patches, etc.
- for developers, I suppose the installations using maintained versions of Wine (latest stable versions, or latest development version) are the most useful. Patched versions are almost a no go, as Wine behavior can become very different from official versions. The use of native components can be informative, but less useful than without, as it's exercising third party code they're not developing and have no control over.

That can explain some reluctance vs. a tool that make it easy (or even the default) to use old versions of Wine, or install native components (then again, so does winetricks). It could also be that some still suspect PoL Wine packages are not pristine Wine sources.

[...] they denied it due to the version of Wine. They claimed I had to test with specific "stable" versions of Wine: 1.4, 1.6.2, etc

Quote from booman


After what I said I'm a bit surprized by this reaction. Maybe they wanted some results using stable version(s) before any result using development versions?
That's the only reasonable explanation, because otherwise, accepting feedback is the best way to improve development versions...

booman Mardi 25 Février 2014 à 19:49
booman

Good points!
I'm definitely a Wine user because I want games to run with Wine and try everything possible to get it running.

The Wine Test submission has change a bit in the last year. They will accept a lot more "stable" versions of Wine for the test.
I always test a game with "stable" Wine versions first. If it doesn't run, then I start trying other versions.
But I remember one submission was denied because I was using something like Wine 1.5.25 or 1.5.18... one of those "in-between-stable" Wines.

† Booman †
Mint 19 64-bit | Nvidia 415.25 | GeForce GTX 1060
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Ronin DUSETTE Mercredi 26 Février 2014 à 19:39
Ronin DUSETTE
Admin

Same issue here... Nevertheless wine is wine and POL is just an interface to wine and winetricks.

Citer


This is completely untrue. POL is not an interface for winetricks. Point in fact, using winetricks with POL is actually a no-no, because it will most likely break things. POL is a front-end for WINE, not winetricks.

Please:
Post debug logs & full computer specs in first post
No private messages for general help, use the forums
Read the wiki, Report broken scripts
borislavsabev Mercredi 5 Mars 2014 à 9:53
borislavsabevAnonymous


Same issue here... Nevertheless wine is wine and POL is just an interface to wine and winetricks.

Citer


This is completely untrue. POL is not an interface for winetricks. Point in fact, using winetricks with POL is actually a no-no, because it will most likely break things. POL is a front-end for WINE, not winetricks.

Quote from DJYoshaBYD


Didn't I already say that? However it is true that I included winetricks wrongly.
Anyway then what is POL's policy on using winetricks in POL installation scripts?
petch Mercredi 5 Mars 2014 à 12:06
petch
Développeur

Anyway then what is POL's policy on using winetricks in POL installation scripts?

Quote from borislavsabev


From what I've been told it's a no go (maybe one can find very old scripts that still use it).

booman Mercredi 5 Mars 2014 à 18:32
booman

You probably don't need it, but I have seen a few libraries that winetricks installs and are not available in PlayOnLinux.
That is the only reason you would need Winetricks.

† Booman †
Mint 19 64-bit | Nvidia 415.25 | GeForce GTX 1060
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izberion Lundi 7 Avril 2014 à 18:57
izberionAnonymous

I've had the exact same problem. Any time I posted a test and mention anything related to PlayOnLinux, they would deny it to be published.
All I wanted to do is show gamers out there that Wine does work for a lot of games.
Most gamers go to WineHQs first to see if a game runs. Then they will be presented with a lot of "Garbage" and "Silver" results even though the game runs fine with PlayOnLinux and Crossover.
Sadly, I think their "pure" Wine idealism is pushing gamers away.
I understand they don't want to support PlayOnLinux, but they could at least let us post on their database that the game works and just link to PlayOnLinux support forum.

Quote from booman

I agree, the way they rate things and only accepting pure Wine, hurts them and any potential users.

Though, it is great for looking up probable bugs, even when a game is installed in POL. And being a sort of perfectionist when it comes to my computer and how well a game runs, I use WineHQ to see if a game is worth the trouble to install and smooth out the problems. If I can't get a game running near perfect, as much as I love Linux, I'll install it into Windows instead.
booman Lundi 7 Avril 2014 à 19:06
booman

I use WineHQ's for the same reason. I'll find posts about a game and tips on how to run it.
I used to even post my success on AppDB as well, but now my posts are getting deleted.
For example, my posts about Hard Reset were deleted recently because of "unmaintained entries". Posts Deleted
Whatever that means.
I didn't even mention PlayOnLinux or patched versions of Wine and my comments get deleted.
So I have basically stopped posting and now stick to PlayOnLinux forum and GamersOnLinux forums.

† Booman †
Mint 19 64-bit | Nvidia 415.25 | GeForce GTX 1060
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Levan Lundi 28 Juillet 2014 à 17:11
Levan

 I know I am replying to a very old post ( forgive me)

Here is what I think about POL and WINEHQ relationship. I believe that Wine team would benefit from POL not existing at all, I want to remind you that their biggest subsidizer is CodeWeavers same people who sell crossover.

 Clearly they do not want POL to be a free alternative to their software, that is why they are so hostile towards POL

 That is what I think, if I am wrong I appologize 

Quentin PÂRIS Lundi 28 Juillet 2014 à 17:29
Quentin PÂRIS
Admin

 I know I am replying to a very old post ( forgive me)

Here is what I think about POL and WINEHQ relationship. I believe that Wine team would benefit from POL not existing at all, I want to remind you that their biggest subsidizer is CodeWeavers same people who sell crossover.

 Clearly they do not want POL to be a free alternative to their software, that is why they are so hostile towards POL

 That is what I think, if I am wrong I appologize 

booman Lundi 28 Juillet 2014 à 19:01
booman

I understand the competition between Crossover and PlayOnLinux and Wine developers not wanting to support PlayOnLinux.  That is typical with buness, profits and support.

The interesting thing is PlayOnLinux is free, helps support Wine and is easier to use than Winetricks. So naturally most people will try PlayOnLinux before paying for Crossover.

I have not noticed any "hostility" per-se, but I continually get emails that my comments are deleted on WineHQ's.  The main reason I comment is to help people troubleshoot their games and support Wine.  I never mention PlayOnLinux and you would think Wine support would want to keep archives for their older game versions.

Sometimes I just think Wine support/developers are building a wall instead of helping us help them.  PlayOnLinux relies on Wine for success.  Wine relies on publicity and support, which they get a lot of from PlayOnLinux.  I don't think either side owes the other, but should one really shut out the other?

PlayOnLinux support simply posts something like "PlayOnLinux does not support Winetricks" instead of deleting comments.  If gamers are being "turned off" instead of "redirected" then they will find somewhere else for support and solutions.

You know how stubborn gamers are!  We always have one game we HAVE to play and will do anything to get it running. wink


† Booman †
Mint 19 64-bit | Nvidia 415.25 | GeForce GTX 1060
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Quentin PÂRIS Mardi 29 Juillet 2014 à 2:09
Quentin PÂRIS
Admin

In some ways I think it might help wine devs if they were to take a more friendly stance towards PoL. There are many games that work better in certain wine versions, and sometimes don't work at all in the newest wine versions. Since their goal is to have wine be able to run any windows application, then investigating why something works in one version and not in another could help point them in the right direction to get it fixed for new versions.

Edité par Tinou

booman Mardi 29 Juillet 2014 à 14:51
booman

I totally understand from a developer/programmer point-of-view that Wine versions and support can be a messs.  On top of that its open-source so the world can do what they want with Wine.  Its has to be a nightmare.  So its probably a good idea to no support older versions.

Unfortunately (or fortunately) the consumer has found that some newer Wine versions do not work with some games.  I have experienced a new version of Wine breaking a game that previously worked perfectly fine.  So I am really happy that PlayOnLinux retains all of those older version and patched versions.

Otherwise, how many years would we be waiting for Stable Wine to fix a tiny mip-map bug that crashes the League of Legends store? ...just one example


† Booman †
Mint 19 64-bit | Nvidia 415.25 | GeForce GTX 1060
Linux for Beginners | List of Linux Games | My Games
PlayOnLinux Guides | PlayOnLinux Explained